Sorry, Could You Repeat That?

A podcast for English learners!  Improve your listening skills, practice your pronunciation, learn new vocabulary!     
  
This episode, I'm chatting with Jaimee!   We chatted about how vowel sounds differ between New Zealand and the UK, socio-linguistics and “kiwiness”, politely asking people to speak more slowly, and what to expect when you visit New Zealand...

Vocabulary tip = Different ways to ask people to repeat what they said in English.

Pronunciation tip = The difference between the long  /ɜː/ ("work") and /ɔː/ ("walk")  vowel sounds. 

Presenter = Sam @_emaileng (Twitter, IG), @emaileng (TikTok)     

Music = "Baby Bloodheart" by Mara Carlyle   @MaraCarlyle    www.maracarlyle.bandcamp.com       

Artwork = Penny Rossano  @pennyrossanomusicart (IG)     www.pennyrossanoillustrations.com     

Transcript

EPISODE 29 = SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THAT?

Hello!  And welcome to Chat ENG – a podcast where people chat about how they learn and use English.  My name is Sam, I’m a CELTA teacher and a performer, and I have a particular interest in pronunciation and expression.   

In each episode, non-native and native speakers will chat about their experiences with English, share their advice and, at the end, I’ll give some pronunciation tips for you to take away and practice.  

So – ready?  Let’s get Chat ENG!

This episode, I’m chatting with Jaimee.  Jaimee is originally from New Zealand, she’s lived and worked in the UK and is now in the Netherlands.  As we’re in different countries, we enjoyed an online chat and her lovely dog was very quiet throughout!  For vocabulary, a person from New Zealand is also known by the informal term a Kiwi – after the National bird, not the yummy green furry fruit! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_(nickname)

We chatted about how vowel sounds differ between New Zealand and the UK, socio-linguistics and “kiwiness”, politely asking people to speak more slowly, and what to expect when you visit New Zealand, but I started by asking Jaimee to tell me a little bit about herself…

INTERVIEW

J: Hello! I'm Jaimee, and I am a New Zealander currently living in Europe, in the Netherlands, and I've been previously living in London and working in London - I came over to study in London - that's what first brought me abroad. 

S: So, I don't know much about New Zealand - I know it's a beautiful place! - but if you are back home and speaking to other New Zealanders, how would they describe your accent – like, would they be able to tell where you're from?

J: New Zealand accent as many people sort of hear first of all, is the…it can be very closed and it can be very tight, and it's quite back in the mouth, and we don't use our lips or our jaw a lot to get the diction. So, it's quite a narrow feeling of speech in the mouth, and when you open the ‘r’ (/a:/) vowel, a little bit open, a bit more forward, it’s quite a familiar sound in Britain, but it's suddenly quite striking if you hear that in New Zealand, people go “oh, that sounds a bit fancy! A bit British!”, yeah!

S:  That's interesting!  So, the accent then in New Zealand, is it relatively similar between the North and the South islands, or does it change a lot depending where you are? 

J:  Yeah, there are no dialects, there are no regional accents. I think the country is so young, it hasn't really had that history of tribal… sort of, you know, separate tribes, sort of coming up. It was very much a “one person across the across the islands” - except, however, there was a large Scottish colonial arrival in the South - in Dunedin, and in the Southland of the South Island - heavily colonised by Scottish, Irish, sort of, Celtic ships - whether it's simply it was just the ships landing, I don't know if that was where they just came into, but there's an “r”, there's a rolled “r” down in the South Island - so they'll say “purple work jersey”!

S:  So you know immediately that they come from that area when you hear it!

J:  Yup! A rolled ‘r’! Slightly… Yeah, yeah, “purple work jersey”. Now I can't even… I don't even know if that's the exact… So that's the only regional little difference. And it's simply just on the ‘r’.

S:  I love the way that you described that the sounds were more forward and, sort of, more nasal, maybe more closed and tighter - when you studied linguistics, did you have a look at this sort of thing?

J:  Yeah, yeah. That’s when you first sort of began to realise that… well, you see it phonetically - you see differences, you know, if people explain it phonetically in the languages. Then if you, sort of, think of your own experience of learning different languages and then sort of falling back into your own first language, you begin to, sort of, notice the feeling of where you are making the sounds or producing them in your mouth, or where the sense of them might be in the mouth, so to speak. And so it was then I realised after learning Italian, learning French, learning German that New Zealanders… I think it goes into our culture as well - we're very relaxed, generally. We like to come off as being quiet a cool and “chilled out” kind of people. It's not a dramatic kind of accent. People pride themselves on being very chilled out and, you know, it's sunny - there's a lot of beach everywhere, and no-one’s gonna get dramatic!

S:  So you've got two journeys, then - first journey from New Zealand to the UK.  Now, as you're going from one English speaking country to another, you’d sort of think “Oh, well, there'd be no problems with accent or vocabulary.”  Did you experience any difficulties?

J:  Yeah, I wish someone had forewarned me, or given me a little bit of friendly, you know, advice. You're going to another English speaking country, but there are a lot of differences - Communication… language-wise, accent-wise, culturally, everything like that, sort of, plays into it.

S:  So I wonder whether you really actively tried to change your accent quicker than it might have changed had you just, sort of, naturally let it…  I mean, but then you find lot of people who come from different places really hold on to their accent, because it is part of your identity.

J:  Yeah, and I think I was possibly more aware of what was going on psychologically and socially, because I had a degree in it and it is a great personal interest of mine, anyway - the whole way we communicate and languages. So, there is a social phenomenon that when you are with people, you can become even more strong. You can start to really put your accent out there to identify and to state “I am different from you. We are not the same”. And you can do that subconsciously… it happens subconsciously and consciously. So, in sociolinguistics, you do find that when people want to assimilate, or if they're in a group and they really like these people and they’re of their “kind”, they start to, sort of, use the same jargon or they might try and start to sound like these people as well to assimilate, to be wanting to be accepted. And that also happens consciously and subconsciously, at some levels. So, I think when I consciously wanted to be understood - particularly over the phone, people wouldn't understand me, so I had to really open and get the diction working much more than I'd round it off in New Zealand speaking with somebody, you know, because there's the ear… the ear muscles, so that they’re tuning in, like you do in any language, speaking with people, you know, and those instances… but, a lot of the time, I actually stayed quite strong and I really put my Kiwi… “Kiwiness”!  I stayed strong and being, you know, because I felt “Yeah, this is me. I'm sorry”, you know?

S: You should be able to say this is me without saying I'm sorry!

J: Yeah, yeah, yeah… 

S: Let's move to the Netherlands, then. So now you're going into a non-native English country. How do you feel now?  Do you feel that you speak as you speak, or do you actively change / modify your vocabulary because you're around non-native English speakers?

J:  I try to avoid colloquial speech, saying Kiwi-isms like “Sweet as!”, or “Yeah, man!”, or “Yeah, cool dude!” …those friendly colloquialisms I've realised they just confuse people! And it's a bit of a funny juggle, because you're trying to be yourself, but to help find a common ground with non-English speakers, yeah, you do have to be as clear as you can, as concise as you can, and short… short sentences really help because, otherwise, you lose people if that… if the trail of sentence goes on too long and…

S:  As a language learner then, Jaimee - What are you doing them to help yourself? Are you watching TV in Dutch? Are you reading lots?

J:  Yeah, practising as much as I can. Trying, just trying – trying, trying, trying… do, do, do!  A lot of people I find have been very helpful and, you know, they won't laugh at you straightaway at your horrendous pronunciation, you know, they're really supportive and they appreciate the effort, because they keep telling me it's not an easy language (right) to speak and to learn. For me, it's their pronunciation. I can read and understand quite a lot, but just – again – it’s that practice of finding the way the vowels are in the mouth, where the consonants are placed.

S:  Why is it that language learners - we all feel it, that if we try and mess up, that we think people are going to laugh at us? I think that just never happens, or hopefully never happens!  I think people appreciate you trying to speak their language.

J:  Yeah, I feel, for me, it's an embarrassment… I feel embarrassed that you don't want to offend people, that they would think you're being sloppy or lazy because you don't care, that you don't want it to, you know… that you're being insulting, to not even try to get it right – but, in actual fact, you're trying very hard!  So, I think you're… yeah, yeah, all your own insecurities often are the things that stop you, but just trying out, you know, before a telephone conversation, I have to prepare my sentences. I prepare what I'm going to say, and I practice it a little bit out loud. So, I've got this feeling…

S:  But how do you feel once those conversations have taken place and they've gone well?

J:  Yeah, I try to feel pleased about it, you know!  I've tried to feel… yeah, I mean, I feel proud that I tried initially, and they're still quite difficult, especially when suddenly someone rapid fire responds to you, and they've spoken so fast and so… and if it's on the phone, that's really tough, because you can't see their mouth, you can't sort of do…you're getting a lot of information by body language, as you know, you know, that's so helpful. So, but I, you know, I just learned the words for “Please could you say that again slowly?”. 

S: There you go – solution! 

Alright, I'm gonna ask you one final question. If a non-native English speaker were going to New Zealand now, what should they expect?

J:  They should be pleased and relieved that New Zealanders speak quite slowly - it's not a fast tempo. They're very relaxed and warm, and they tend not to dismiss somebody who is struggling or is not… they really give time to people, because people are in much less of a hurry about their lives. Obviously, there are caveats to that and there's gonna be rude, you know, idiots around the globe, including in New Zealand, who may not have the time, but generally there is…yeah, you know, you can try it out and there's a real acceptance for people to allow you to perhaps make some mistakes with your English, perhaps try a sentence again. And they’ll give you a real, you know, probably pat on the shoulder and go “Good on ya, mate! Yeah!”. 

S: I think that’s just the best advice you can give someone!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

(Music)

I love that Jaimee prepares what she’s going to say, and practices it a little out loud before speaking to someone – it can really help you feel less nervous… and if the person you’re speaking to replies very quickly and you don’t understand everything, make sure – like Jaimee – that you have a few useful phrases ready.  In English, these could be:

“Could you repeat that, please?”; or

“Sorry, I don’t understand – could you say that again, please?”; or

“Can you say that again more slowly, please?”; 

or if you just want to confirm what you heard, you could say something like:  

“I’m not sure I caught all of that - did you say…?” 

So, as Jaimee was talking about open vowel sounds, this episode’s pronunciation tip is about the difference between the English vowel sounds /ɜː/ and /ɔː/.  These long vowels can sound very similar to learners – so let’s think about how your mouth shape changes first: when you say /ɜː/, you have a nice open mouth, your jaw and tongue are relaxed, and maybe you feel your tongue come forward a little, but it stays behind your bottom teeth.  Now, as you change to /ɔː/, notice how only your lips move forward to make more of an oval shape.   

To practice this difference, I have 3 sentences with similar words (or ‘minimal pairs!’):

First:  the verbs “to walk” /wɔːk/ (meaning = to travel by foot) and “to work” /wɜːk/  (meaning = to complete tasks for money!)

Try this sentence = “I walk to work every day!”

Next:  the words “shirt” /ʃɜːt/ (meaning = clothing you wear on the top half of your body!) and “short” /ʃɔːt/ (meaning = the opposite of “long”):

Try this sentence = “That shirt is too short!”

Finally:  the verbs “heard” [hɜːd] (past tense of ‘to hear’) and “to hoard” [hɔːd] (meaning = to keep stuff for no reason, so you have too much and no space!)

Try this sentence = “I heard they hoard old newspapers!”

Bonus sentence: For extra practice, try this sentence:

“I heard they walk to work in a shirt that’s too short!”

So, to recap: Think about your open mouth position and how only your lips move forward to change from /ɜː/ to /ɔː/.  Over to you to practice!

So there we are!  The transcript of this episode is available to read on the podcast’s webpage, so take a look!    Join me next time for more pronunciation and grammar tips, more advice and, most importantly, more chatting!   My thanks again to Jaimee and, for her music, a huge thanks to the wonderful Mara Carlyle.   Bye for now!