Now or No?

A podcast for English learners!  Improve your listening skills, practice your pronunciation, learn new vocabulary!     

This episode, I'm chatting with Paddy!   We chatted about teaching a bit of Bristolian, learning from your students, and being on the other side as a total Beginner...

Pronunciation tip = practicing the difference between the diphthongs / ɑʊ / ("Ow!") and / əʊ / ("Oh!")...        


Presenter = Sam  @_emaileng  (Twitter, IG), @emaileng (TikTok)     

Music = "Baby Bloodheart" by  MaraCarlyle  @MaraCarlyle    www.maracarlyle.bandcamp.com     

Artwork = Penny Rossano  @pennyrossanomusicart (IG)   www.pennyrossanoillustrations.com      

Transcript

EPISODE 14 = NOW OR NO? 

Hello! And welcome to Chat ENG, a podcast where people chat about how they learn and use English. My name is Sam, I’m a CELTA teacher and a performer, and I have a particular interest in pronunciation and expression. 

In each episode, non-native and native speakers will chat about their experiences with English, share their advice and, at the end, I’ll give some pronunciation tips for you to take away and practice. 

So – ready? Let’s get Chat ENG! 

This episode, I’m chatting with Paddy. Paddy is an English language teacher from Bristol in the UK who is now working in Poland. We met online, as we’re in differently countries and there was a little bit of a delay – hopefully I managed to edit the bad bits out! 

We chatted about teaching a bit of Bristolian, learning from your students, and being on the other side as a total Beginner, but I started by asking Paddy to tell me a little about himself... 

INTERVIEW
 P: Right... I’m Paddy, I am from Bristol, I am at EFL teacher.. I’ve been doing it for the last several years - I think 7, 8 years... something like that - and worked in Indonesia, East Timor, and, more exotically, Bristol and now Poland, and so I’ve sort of been all over. 

S: Okay, with working in different countries, and from Bristol, how would you describe your English? 

P: Bristolian!
 S: What does that mean?! 

P: So it’s actually, a bit of a hybrid - I have moved around a bit, even as a kid - it means I’ve got a regional accent, not a very strong one, but something that occasionally comes into play. Outside class, I speak fairly quickly you know normal pace of things and whatnot but in class, I’ll admit, it’s a bit of a different animal. 

S: What sort of modifications do you think you make other than just the speed at which you speak? 

P: So I’d like to say none at all, but I have a suspicion that pretty much every English teacher does it to some extent. I mean, with Beginners and Elementary students, lower level students, you have to grade your language, otherwise they’re just not going to understand but I’m completely aware of standardising my English a little bit in class so I have to, I mean - I know you’re not supposed to do that, but take just a normal word like ‘house’ which is easy for a student to understand like that, but if I’m going (accent) “I ought to see my house!” then they don’t get it, that’s troublesome for them. So I definitely modify, definitely do - I’m very posh in class! 

S: Why do you think we modify so much? Would it be more honest to teach as authentically as we could be, or do you think we are just too aware of the differences that we all sound like and we are trying to standardise it so students have a better chance to learn? 

P: So, I think it has as much to do with how we would interact with a non-native speaker, a second language English speaker, if we met them. There is a kind of mutual responsibility there, where they have to make... in order to communicate, they have to make as much effort as they can to learn the language, understand the language, get across what they mean to you, and you have to do the same - you’ve got to accommodate and I think that’s something I’d like to see a lot of in society in general, it’s something that should be encouraged in British society. I’ve never really subscribed to the view that you should go in and speak your most authentic English, because my most authentic English is absolutely appalling and nobody should be subjected to that! Funnily enough, in Bristol I would make a point sometimes of teaching little titbits... 

S: Such as? 

P: Such as “Alright, me babs!” “How best?” “How be yon?” “Have a good’un!” and things like that, stuff they might actually hear – “Have a good’un!” is a thing I genuinely say and that they might hear in Bristol, so it definitely has some value but I teach it discreetly, not just as an integrated part of my lessons! 

S: Then, as you’ve been a teacher for a while, do you have any favourite parts of English that you like to teach? 

P: I do love Pron, actually – Pronunciation, I do - I’ve always been interested in phonology, which is a shame because it’s sort of the most useless part, actually. I love teaching it and I will take any excuse to do it, which again I shouldn’t really do, but students enjoy it - I find they tend to respond quite well to it, and they want to pronounce things properly, but I think it’s important to get across to them that a) they’re never realistically going to speak like a native speaker, and b) it’s not necessary or, in fact, shouldn’t be desirable. Students should be encouraged to embrace whatever accent they happen to end up speaking English in - which is likely going to be their accent. 

S: Interesting... okay, as an opposite to that question then, Paddy - is there anything when it comes up you think “oh, no...”? 

P: Honestly, I don’t think I have anything that’s like that... yeah, I guess maybe the only thing I’m not a massive fan of is ‘quiet time’ in class. So if, for whatever reason, I have to give them something to read in the classroom, then it almost seems a bit of a shame and I know it’s necessary that - the same with writing – it’s sometimes necessary to do that, but that stuff I think it’s like dead air! that I’m just sat there twiddling my thumbs going “just say something”! 

S: So a Paddy class is a dynamic class!
 P: Lots of chat, yep, lots of chat, lots of noise and, occasionally, groans of despair... 

S: No, I can’t imagine in your class groans of despair?
 P: Oh yeah, I tend to elicit them..
 S: Are there any topics that are off-limits or is anything ...is it anything goes in your class? 

P: It’s a good question. At the moment, I’m teaching one-to-one classes - which is interesting because, frankly, I’m not offended by things really. As a teacher, what I’m after is getting people to communicate and if they’re communicating effectively then that’s, as far as they’re concerned, job well done, and as far as I’m concerned job well done for them as well. So right now, no...and actually, in a classroom with multiple learners, like a regular classroom, I try to encourage as open a forum as possible, so rather than shutting down the conversation, encouraging students to, you know, discuss things reasonably, to present different points of view. I think that’s one of the best things about a language class, anyway, so I always just use them! If someone says something, brings up a topic that is maybe not all that appropriate, something a little bit off-colour, then I do usually ask someone who would present a reasonable angle on it and say “oh what do you think about it?” so I try not to shut it down, but occasionally you do have to put a stop to certain topics - but that’s just a case of changing the topic, really. 

S: Have you ever brought up any conversations where it’s fallen really on deaf ears? 

P: Um - yes definitely! Many, many times! You know, I think that’s something that happens to loads of teachers. I think mostly when I had my first jobs abroad, and I tried to ...because I think of language learning as very much a kind of Intercultural activity as much as anything, and I think that’s got to go both ways, but that means that you’re often trying to bring in cultural elements to the topic, the content, which the students have no experience of, have no contact with. I think in Indonesia, I think I tried to teach them about Bristol - I was like “you guys are gonna love this, Bristol is really cool, is the best city in the world!” and they were just sat there going “What’s a Banksey?” “What do you mean a bridge? It’s just a road that goes over the river, right?” 

S: Oh no!
 P: Yeah...
 S: So within all that then, Paddy - do you have any favourite levels that you like to teach? 

P: No. I can answer that quickly, because I’ve been doing a lot of job interviews lately and that question comes up a lot - and I really don’t. It’s not really about levels, I think each group is different, each student is different... I’ve definitely had favourite classes, is no doubt about that, but not levels. 

S: Okay, well let’s talk about you, then Paddy - what would you improve about your own English if you could - so anything to do with vocabulary or grammar, punctuation, pronunciation... anything that you would improve if you could? 

P: I mean, if I could improve my English... yeah, I’d love to be a total grammarian or some sort of lexicographer and just know absolutely everything about vocabulary or grammar but realistically that’s not going to happen - those people don’t exist. In terms of my English, I think it can always improve, you know, you can always learn new things - I learn new things from my students, I do. I had a student that described herself as “sclerotic” the other day, and I was just like “you mean you have sclerosis?” and I’d never known before that it could just mean very, sort of, staid and starchy and inflexible at work but she meant it how it actually is meant, and she’d found that out and used it, which I thought was great. I mean, you can always learn more but, no, I don’t constantly strive to improve my own English - I’m too busy learning Polish! 

S: Ah! So you’re now on the other side of it as a Beginner? P: Oh, total Beginner! 

S: Now, a total Beginner, does that now make you think about how you approach total Beginner English?
 P: Yeah, it definitely does... it definitely does... although, because I’m now teaching some of the students and they’re one-to-one Beginner classes, and I don’t think you teach one-to- one Beginner classes without really, really thinking about what you’re doing all the time... but yeah it’s great, it’s really great to have that little bit of extra empathy for the people you’re teaching because it’s hard... it’s a difficult thing to do. 

S: And how’s it going? 

P: Er.. terribly! Yeah, making loads and loads of mistakes, talking utter nonsense to people half the time... 

S: But do you get nervous? Do you get nervous trying to speak, or do you think “it doesn’t matter - I’m just going to try”? 

P: Oh, I get nervous, yeah! I think everyone does and I think that’s an important part of it what are you talking about there, that kind of the empathy because it is nerve wracking, for particularly, I think, adult learners to walk into language classroom and, you know, you can grade your language all you like, but they don’t understand the instructions you’re giving them a lot of the time, so there is a lot of non-verbal stuff anyway, and inevitably you’re using language that they don’t understand... it’s kind of impossible to avoid – that’s the point, they don’t know any of the language. So, yeah, it’s really nerve wracking. I will stand there repeating again and again and again the phrase I need to use when I go down the shop and ask for a bus ticket and equip myself with that and then go and use it, and that’s nerve wracking - it’s always nerve wracking - and you walk away and it’s that tiny victory you think “yeah!” 

S: Exactly! That feeling of success is really nice! Final question, then Paddy - what top tips do you have for a learner who’s striking out learning English? 

P: So, get as much practice in real context as you can - if you need to go and get something done, try not to just rely on your pointing and your body language and things like that, you know, learn what you need to say to ask the question that you need, because the feeling of achievement is great, and it really helps you remember that sort of stuff... but there are loads of other ways to encounter language in authentic contexts – I mean, I’ve had students who’ve learned incredible English from Netflix, online gaming, YouTube, things like that - it’s not always communication with another person, although online gaming is a little bit of that ... and just don’t worry about making mistakes. When I was learning Indonesian, one of the best things I ever heard was when I met a guy who was a friend of a friend, and she was an English teacher he was Indonesian, and I was just starting out learning, and I spoke to him and I was practising with him, and the report that I got back via her (via my friend) was that I had been speaking to him in Indonesian, he hadn’t really understood anything that I’d said but that I had just carried on talking at him and I was dead proud of that, because that was a really important part of my progress in that language... I just went out there and made loads of mistakes! 

S: And here you are to tell the tale - so it doesn’t matter, does it? (Music) 

Take Paddy’s advice and learn the words you need to ask your questions. Try not to use your hands or your facial expressions to get what you need – each successful attempt is a great feeling! Also remember to say ‘Have a good’un!’ if you ever visit the City of Bristol – local people will be very impressed! 

So – this episode’s pronunciation tip is based on Paddy’s example of the word ‘house’... no, I’m not teaching you how to say it the way Paddy said it... but it does highlight a type of sound that learners find tricky = diphthongs (or dipthongs) – 1 vowel sound that sounds like a combination of 2 vowel sounds. The word ‘house’ has the diphthong / ɑʊ /, and some learners find it difficult to make the difference between this sound and the sound / əʊ /, so the difference between “Ow!” for pain (“Ow! That hurt!”) and “Oh!” for surprise (“Oh! 

Really?”) When 2 sounds are similar, we call them minimal pairs – 2 sounds with a small difference. So, to help, I have 3 examples for you to practice: 

First: House = / ɑʊ /, Home = / əʊ /
 Try this sentence = “Making a house a home takes time.” 

Next: Now = / ɑʊ / (at this moment) and No = / əʊ / (a negative response) Try this sentence = “They said no now.” 

Finally: Bow = / ɑʊ / ( verb, to bend forward to greet someone) and Bow = / əʊ / (noun, for example, the long piece of wood with horsehair which you play a violin with) 

Try this sentence = “The violinist bows with his bow before playing.” 

When practicing theses sentences, notice how your mouth moves – the / ɑʊ / shape of your mouth should be a little wider than the / əʊ / shape... in both cases, your lips might come forwardattheend... /ɑʊ/.../əʊ/ 

Over to you to practice! 

So there we are! The transcript of this episode is available to read on the podcast’s webpage, so take a look! 

Join me next time for more pronunciation and grammar tips, more advice and, most importantly, more chatting! 

My thanks again to Paddy and, for her music, a massive thanks to the wonderful Mara Carlyle. Bye for now!