Try Not To Say "Er..."

A podcast for English learners!  Improve your listening skills, practice your pronunciation, learn new vocabulary!     

This episode, I'm chatting with Stefan!   We chatted about simplifying your English vocabulary, saying what you actually mean, and learning English from a non-native English parent...

Vocabulary Challenge = learn 3 new and exciting words!  If you use 'Myriad', 'Ostentatious', and 'Superfluous' after listening to this episode, let me know!     

Presenter = Sam  @_emaileng (Twitter, IG), @emaileng (TikTok)     

Music = "Baby Bloodheart" by Mara Carlyle  @MaraCarlyle      www.maracarlyle.bandcamp.com     

Artwork = Penny Rossano  @pennyrossanomusicart (IG)   www.pennyrossanoillustrations.com     

Transcript

EPISODE 17 = TRY NOT TO SAY “ER…”

Hello!  And welcome to Chat ENG – a podcast where people chat about how they learn and use English.  My name is Sam, I’m a CELTA teacher and a performer, and I have a particular interest in pronunciation and expression.   

In each episode, non-native and native speakers will chat about their experiences with English, share their advice and, at the end, I’ll give some pronunciation tips for you to take away and practice.  

So – ready?  Let’s get Chat ENG!

This episode, I’m chatting with Stefan.  Stefan is originally from the UK, and is the COO of The Shortcut – a non-profit company working with ‘International Talent’ based in Helsinki, Finland. 

We chatted about simplifying your English vocabulary, saying what you actually mean, and learning English from a non-native English parent, but I started by asking Stefan to tell me a little bit about himself…

INTERVIEW

St: Yeah, I can introduce myself! So, my name is Stefan. I'm originally from the UK. I have a Polish Mum, a British dad, so I have both citizenships. I'm currently the COO of The Shortcut, which is this NGO, based in the centre of Helsinki. And their mission is to help international talent integrate into Finnish society. So, we do that by offering loads of free services, so free training programmes to upskill people, and free events, activities, networking sessions, and all of these kinds of things with the hope of finding them a job, or encouraging them to pursue entrepreneur... Entrepreneurship. Difficult word! (yes!) But as well as that, there's a really big community element to the work, and we've had.. we'd have potlucks, we'd learn Finnish together, and we do all these really lovely things that help people feel like they belong somewhere.

S: Fantastic. That sounds like a really positive thing! Let's go back a little bit then Stefan, how would you describe your English... being, I guess, were you brought up bilingual? 

St: I wish I was. And you know what? I used to go to Polish school when I was younger. So I used to go every Saturday, I think it was, when I was that age, going to school, six days in a row was the worst! And all of my friends were playing football, and my mum was like "you're going to go to Polish school" and I was like "What???". So, I actually think I was part of the decision to stop learning. So no, I'm an English speaker. I can't speak Polish, despite having the citizenship. My accent is from the south of the UK, I'd say. I would say it's relatively formal, but then some people might suggest it's a little bit informal. I don't know, it really sort of depends on who you talk to, at least in the UK. And what else would I say about it? I'd say my vocabulary is, like, relatively broad. I use a lot of words, and maybe I tried to simplify a lot since moving to Finland. And I speak quite quickly, and I mumble. So it makes for a terrible podcast! 

S: Interesting that you say that you simplified your language? Do you...Are you quite conscious that you choose different vocabulary Now you're living in a non-English speaking country?

St: Yes. So I try to speak slower. I try to pronounce my words a bit more. I definitely use simpler language, for sure. So I might not use words like 'myriad' or 'ostentatious' and these kind of things, I would say things like "yeah, there's a lot of stuff" or "it's quite posh", I don't know. Yeah, definitely simplify my vocabulary, because I think the English vocab is huge, and just when I think I've grasped it, like, there are new ways I find or their sentence structures that are new... it's endless, I guess, the English language. I think mainly just reflecting on myself in the way that I speak, and I don't know whether this is just like growing up in the UK and being British as well, but I don't say what I mean -ever. So it must be impossible for a foreign speaker to actually know what I want, and what I'm asking for. I can give you an example - so (yeah!) I can go into a shop. I'll go to the front desk, and I'll ask the shop assistant "Can I try this on?" and they look at me and they're like "yeah, of course you can, you're in a shop". And so I'm like "oh, okay, that was a bit...That's a bit cold. They were a little bit standoffish", and then I realise it's because I'm not asking where the changing rooms are, even though that's what I mean, (Ah!) I'm asking "Can I try this on?" and I realised that that happens a lot in the way that I speak and in the language, and so it's there's like, there's layers to it. So when I say something to someone "can I try this on?" What I'm really asking is "where are the changing rooms?", and it must be really difficult for a non-native...well, at least a non-native British speaker at least, to understand what the hell we actually mean?

S: Why do you think we ask our questions like that?

St: Oh, my goodness, why do we... why do we ask our questions like that? We just want to be super polite, and we don't want to be a burden on anyone, I think, yeah, then there's probably way more to it, but on the surface, I think it's just trying to be polite.

S: But you're right. Why... what's wrong with just saying "where's the changing room, please?"?

St: Absolutely. It's a shop, they expect you to try things on! So they'd think you're an idiot if you didn't, if you just walked in and, you know, just said "I'm going to buy this" like "do you want to try it on? It's like "Oh, okay, then if you insist."

S: So when you're giving people advice at your company, do you think you're focusing more on sort of business English that people use, or is it a real array of general English as well? 

St: It's, it's a real array, I'd say. It depends on the type of person I'm speaking to. So if I I'm speaking to a community member - so basically someone who's looking for a job, I'm way more colloquial. And I'll always end my, my messages or my statements by saying "Cheers." And it's really nice to see them also adapt to that and say "Cheers" back to me, which is really funny. I mean, when I'm speaking with businesses, and it's a bit more business English - English a bit more concise, a bit more direct.

S: So you don't say "Cheers" on your formal emails?

St: I still do, actually. (Oh, do you?) I still do. I also ask "How are you?" at the start of every correspondence as well, and I think for Finns, at least, that's a black box - they're like "Oh, my goodness, how do I react to that question?" I think for them, like, business is business, it's, like, get to the point, make it short, make it easy for me. And then again, it's coming back to this politeness. From a British standpoint, where you can't just ask for something. You need to have a lot of fluff around it. So, like, "how was your weekend?" like "Did you go to the park with your kids? By the way, you were late with delivering this and I'm actually quite angry, but also have a great weekend!" And like, superfluous language, and yeah, it's hilarious really!

S: Yeah. Are you able to be direct and polite at the same time, I guess is the challenge...

St: I'm sure you can get the balance, right, but at least for someone like me, when someone's quite direct, it does, well it did in the past, like, I don't know, rub me the wrong way. It.. I definitely felt like "oh, I wonder if they're okay?"

S: What about when you get together with your community and the members - do you find that people have similar English?

St: You know, I'm really impressed, and, like, somewhat embarrassed by everyone else's grasp of English that I've come across, because they're good at it and, you know, for someone who's not bilingual, who can't speak another language, I feel like I always have to apologise to them and say "I'm so sorry that I can only speak English. You guys are really incredible!" But what I would say is that, a lot of the English they learn from TV shows, and I think a lot of them are American, so American English is definitely more prevalent than British English, so I've found that I've had to change some of my words as well, so I might start saying 'trash' rather than the 'bin'. I actually just said "you guys" - I never used to say that, but for some reason I say "you guys" now! Yeah, so the standard is good. What's really interesting is that all of these international people, they can actually they can communicate with each other really, really well in English, because they've all had to learn it and go through the same things, and they actually find me harder to understand in English then someone else who's like a non-native speaker (Yeah) which I find really interesting. But it also makes sense, I think.

S: Yeah. All right, Stefan - what about your own English? Think about your vocabulary, or your grammar, or your pronunciation, punctuation even - what would you improve about your English if you could?

St: Okay, so I'm going to give you two answers here. One, that's truly my answer, and one that's my girlfriend's answer (Okay!) of what I should improve!  My answer is my vocabulary. I love learning new words, and I keep coming across new words all the time when I read articles and stuff, and I always have to look it up, and then always have to try and use it in a sentence the next day, but my girlfriend would say my diction. She would say I need to improve my diction. I mumble, I speak too quickly. I don't pronunciate [sic] properly. And my 'th' has become 'f' way too often.

S: Now, is that a signifier of where you're from?

St: Yes...yes to an extent, I think. I think it was sort of growing up in a household, well where my mom was Polish, because I think that the 'th' sound was really difficult for her to say, so I just learnt it as 'f' I used to sort of mimic what she was doing. And it wasn't until I met my partner, Tania, and she corrected me and she was like "it's not Fursday, it's Thursday!". I'm like "what are you talking about?".

S: Okay, so a mix of vocabulary and diction, then.

St: Yes, what I need to improve. I will also add - sorry, I'm adding loads of things that I need to improve - my sentence structure is often strange as well, and... I'm blaming, I'm not blaming, but actually I'm explaining a lot of it is based on living with my Polish mum, so like, the way that she would structure sentence is normally like back to front, or not, it's not back to front - it's the other way around, I should say, you know, and it's the same in kind of French and things like that, like, you would say "the car blue" rather than "the blue car" when it's the equivalent, so I was surrounded by someone who is speaking English as a second language, and moving the sentence structures around. I also do the same...

S: That's really interesting!

St: Yeah, it really is. And, again, it wasn't until I met Tania...well, actually, I think a few people had pointed out before, but it wasn't until I met her - and she's really, really good at English - that I realised what I was doing, and I was like "Oh, yeah, you're right! That is a weird way to to write a sentence."

S: Was there any point where you didn't understand what your mum was saying? Or that you get..do you think "Oh, hang on, what what are you trying to say?" or is it just "that's how mum speaks, so, obviously, that's correct."?

St: That's, that's also an interesting question. It's kind of like, I'd learn how to understand her. So I could understand both. And it's really strange, because there are some contexts, maybe like we're having family friends over, there all native British speakers, and they wouldn't understand what my mum was saying, but I was always able to articulate what she meant and what she was saying, so I've managed to sort of train my brain to understand both. 

S: I was just thinking about the way you said that you would translate - almost translate - for your mum with family friends, I guess - do you feel like you do the same with the your customer base, or your community, as they're working here?

St: Yeah, I do, I do do the same. Part of my role is kind of matching some highly skilled, like, talent with companies that are looking for their skill set, and I'll go through their CV and maybe help them with their job application, and maybe even write, like, a reference, and I often find myself, like, making a few amendments and being, like "I think you actually mean this." So yeah, I definitely try and translate, like, some of what they're saying.

S: Final question, then, Stefan. What advice would you give an English learner to help them?

St: There are a couple of things, and they've probably already been said in your podcasts already, but like finding a buddy is really, really important - finding someone that will, like, speak to you in that language and force you to speak that language. If you live with someone that speaks that language, even better, I think that's the quickest way to learn a language. (Yeah).  The other way is just to watch TV with the subtitles on, and, like, there are tons of English TV shows is what I mean, there are tons of them. So I'd recommend doing that, as well. Yeah, just I guess one thing for those people that are learning, try not to say "um", because I say it a lot in my sentences, I think! What would you call that when you say "um"?

S: Well, they're sort of pauses and...or, actually, I wonder if it falls under "Non-Verbal Communication", sort of, like when you, sort of, use your hands and your facial expressions and "er", "well", "um". Is it "er" particularly, or do you vary it? 

St: "Errrr" - I think it's "er", I think it's just "er"! 

(Music)

So – learn a new word and then put it in a sentence, and try not to “er…”.  The sounds we make when we’re speaking in English - er, um, erm, huh, well, you know, like - are called ‘Speech Disfluencies’. Basically, they are sounds or words that break up our sentences so they are not so fluent. They’re a natural part of our speech, and we use them for many reasons - perhaps we have forgotten a word or a name, maybe we need time to think of a good answer… or maybe we’re trying to speak too fast.  To reduce the number of ‘ers’ and ‘ums’, just take a little more time when speaking – aim to speak clearly, don’t aim to speak quickly.  

So – this episode’s pronunciation tip is a vocabulary tip!  Stefan talked about simplifying his language with non-native English speakers but in our chat, he used 3 great words… so your challenge is to learn these words and then use them in a sentence! 

First: Myriad  / mIri:əd/ = 3 beats, with the stress on beat 1 = Ba – ba – ba. Meaning = a very large number or variety of something.

Try this sentence = “A myriad of people attended the conference.”

Next: Ostentatious /os-ten-teI-ʃəs / = 4 beats, with the stress on beat 3 = ba – ba – BA – ba.  Meaning = something that is too much, a bit over the top, too expensive and designed to impress people and you are not impressed.

Try this sentence =  “His ostentatious office was too distracting!”

Finally: Superfluous / su:pɜ:rflu:əs / = 4 beats, with the stress on beat 2 – ba – BA – ba – ba.  Meaning = something unnecessary and no longer needed.

Try this sentence = “The new slides were superfluous to our presentation.”

Have a go with these 3 words and let me know how you get on – find me on twitter or Instagram @_emaileng!  

Over to you to practice!

 So there we are!  The transcript of this episode is available to read on the podcast’s webpage, so take a look!   

 Join me next time for more pronunciation and grammar tips, more advice and, most importantly, more chatting!

 My thanks again to Stefan and, for her music, a massive thanks to the wonderful Mara Carlyle.   Bye for now!